This Virgo is 46 years old today, so what do the stars tell us about him.Per Astrology.com:
"The universe is really rocking and rolling right now. The fun and games begin very early as the Moon enters exuberant and enthusiastic Sagittarius (12:02AM PDT). Less than one hour later, Vesta in Virgo opposes Uranus in Pisces (12:55AM PDT). If you are feeling worried about a loved one's safety and security, join the club. This is amplified enormously by the long-awaited Saturn-Neptune polarity from Leo to Aquarius (2:56AM PDT). This sky pattern will form again on February 28 and June 25, 2007. Steer clear of anyone or anything that brings confusion, chaos, fogginess and nebulosity into your life. Saturn-Neptune oppositions only occur every 35 years and many people experience a potent tug of war between the material (Saturn) and spiritual (Neptune) realms of life. Unless you are very wise and sensible, there is a great tendency to be unrealistic right now. Try to be the Rock of Gibraltar to dear ones on the ropes. Help the downtrodden and disenfranchised to the best of your ability. Learn more about meditation and yoga. Explore the fine and graphic arts to your heart's content. Challenges may also manifest around the time of the First Quarter Sun-Moon Phase (3:58PM PDT) - activating 9 degrees of Virgo and Sagittarius. Cut through obstacles in your path with mental clarity and emotional calm. Your mental universe is abuzz during the Sun-Mercury Superior Conjunction (9:50PM PDT) at 9 degrees of Virgo. You can think of this as a ""Full Mercury"" - with the Earth, Sun and Mercury lined up in the solar system, and Mercury on the far side of the Sun, but moving at top speed. Ingenious ideas flash through your mind like meteors lighting up the night sky. Research, reading and writing receive the thumb's-up sign."
...and all this time I though that the activation of 9 degrees of Virgo and Sagittarius only manifested itself in the Second Quarter of Sun-Moon Phase. Also in case you're confused, PDT is 10 hours behind Beirut Time.
80 comments:
Happy birthday to the great zionist killer! He has brought fear into those dastardly zionists! Congrats on his victory! I as one of those "illegal" zionists wish him MORE victories like the one he just has had!
Happy Birthday to you, Happy Birthday to you, You act like a deranged, autocratic killer, and you smell like one too!
Happy Brthday Rubble King!
Happy Birthday!
Going to have a parade? PLEASE? Going to celebrate Allah great victory at the SKY bar?
How do you say Happy Birthday in farsi?
ha ha ha
let's also celebrate the "return" of "what is occupation" after being treated in a anti-depression clinic.
the treatement failed ince his case was so advanced. The doctors announced that "what is occupation" still doesn't know what is occupation.
yalla! somebody says beit 3ateiba.
"of of
ramani l daher bil mitlak
ramani
w fawares rak3a terwi 7sani
int w binit ikhtak wel salili w baddi mitilkon sab3a tmani"
Ok i know it's not 3ataba but hey, mashkal?
Occupation?
No just tourism.
haha
Anywayz, happy birthday to the sayyid, w happy zikra l 2imim Moussa l Sadr (lana l sadrou douna l 3alamina 2awi l kabr), w happy zikra 2eghtiyél Nizar l 7alabi w chou kamén?
Diana?
Thérésa?
w boukra l deadline
hilal chouman said...
let's also celebrate the "return" of "what is occupation" after being treated in a anti-depression clinic.
the treatement failed ince his case was so advanced. The doctors announced that "what is occupation" still doesn't know what is occupation.
yalla! somebody says beit 3ateiba.
Hilal, the return of personal attacks... tsk tsk... I see still projecting?
ENJOY THE RUBBLE!
Victory for Lebanon! Yippie!
jamal, ma tez3al minneh. your posts bi3a2do, bass l comment section shi hilarious beb awwal. habbeit :D
wooohooooooooooooo my favorite punching bag is here.
I missed you "occupation", I hope we can continue our lovely relationship as shiter(me) and shat upon(you).
Welcome back habibi.
Kodder,
Yes I bow to your greatness..
enjoy your rubble, oh but that's not correct, your running away to a western nation.. canada...
lah lah lah...liko meen hon...!
wlak "occupation"....mish 3ayb te2ta3na heik ya zalame?
ba3deen shu osset el ribblema3ak? shu kannak t3allamta jdeed hal kelmeh?
ya "occupation"....did you disagree on how they were paying you? walla shu?
yalla....sammi3na ur stupid comments....elna fatra ma da7akna....
kodder- yehnik el salameh khayyeh...! ;)
what rubble?
give it 2 years and the rubble is gone, but the rubble inside israel will never be built again, and I am not speaking about stone :).
oh and btw I am not running to canada anymore, sticking around just to enjoy people like you cry from frustration.
Hashem :P
you dont understand...
but i doubt you could. Your world is heading for a major realignment. It will be sunni vrs shia... Look to Iraq, that is your future. Iran now occupies your country and you roll over still barking about how zionists should not be a country.
fool,
But as for your rubble vrs mine... I'll take mine over yours anyday.
do you know how to say "i obey" to your iranian and syrian masters?
i used to dread reading ur olmert posts...but i am happy to see that u r baaack...yess things are starting to become normal again
LOL
at occupation
dude if you say "i obey" to US... it doesn't mean that everyone is as submissive as you.
poor little boy.
so kodder...
aint this great... you with your "israel" has no right to exist and me with my belief you have no more right to be a country as israel does.
let's look at this. the arab world (you) hates israel (me). You (the arab world) has tried to destroy me (israel) for 60 years.
are you any closer to your dream? you have boycotted israel to whose harm? what goods and services are you withholding from me?
so here is the deal. if you (arab world) keep trying to destroy me (israel) what will happen?
more destruction of lebanon or wider areas of the arab world.
is this your goal? so you hate me, big deal, I have been hated by MUCH better than you (the arab world) but the question still begs...
what are you going to do about it?
NOTHING, so maybe you should get over it, israel exists whether you like it or not...
"What is Occupation", you are both outrageous and right. We may not like it but you are right. Screw you anyway.
"Wat is occupation" i have a question for you... What is occupation? and r u really jewish?? if u were a real jew you would be too busy counting your dads stolen money rather than posting your stupid unwanted cow manure on this website. one more thing happy bday to sayyed hassan nasrallah w alla ytawel 3omor ja3ja3 w jumblat just untill the next elections 3eshtom w 3asha al-lebanon.
btw jimmy for your pollon the politics calendar i am with the 8th of may movement..;))
Rita said...
An esraeli goes to england in heathrow airport the customs officer asks him
"Name?"
he goes, Ehud Cohen.
"Occupation?"
he answers, no. only tourism.
i heard that too, funny...
however who is an occupier? the israelis are occupiers of jerusalem, king david's city? or are the arabs coming from arabia living in all parts of the moab?
if jews have no nationalist right in israel what rights do the arabs have in thier british created borders? why no kurdistan? why are you all silent about tibet and the berbers?
if jews have no nationalistic rights to hebron then why should lebanon even be a state since syria claims it?
open up the can of worms and it will get ugly...
ali'j said...
"Wat is occupation" i have a question for you... What is occupation? and r u really jewish?? if u were a real jew you would be too busy counting your dads stolen money rather than posting your stupid unwanted cow manure on this website. one more thing happy bday to sayyed hassan nasrallah w alla ytawel 3omor ja3ja3 w jumblat just untill the next elections 3eshtom w 3asha al-lebanon.
ali,
what an amazing post! As for what is occupation, i suggest you look at the arab world and understand that MOST of it was taken from other peoples. They dont count you say?
As for being a "real" jew i'd be counting my father's stolem money".
Wonderful, taken right from "Mel Gibson's I am to stupid to insult Jews with class, so i sound like a drunken loser"
Really, ali, does it serve your people with dignity and honor to sound this stupid?
Ali do you have to ability to actually say something?
'what is occupation'
'what is reading?'
“Between 3000 and 1100 B.C., Canaanite civilization covered what is today Israel, the West Bank, Lebanon and much of Syria and Jordan...Those who remained in the Jerusalem hills after the Romans expelled the Jews [in the second century A.D.] were a potpourri: farmers and vineyard growers, pagans and converts to Christianity, descendants of the Arabs, Persians, Samaritans, Greeks and old Canaanite tribes
The extended kingdoms of David and Solomon, on which the Zionists base their territorial demands, endured for only about 73 years...Then it fell apart...[
The land of Palestine was inhabited by Palestinian Arabs. In 1850 these consisted of approximately 400,000 Muslims, 75,000 Christians, and 25,000 Jews. For centuries these groups had lived in harmony: 80 percent Muslim, 15 percent Christian, 5 percent Jewish.
the british occupied palestine as is and the 1917 balfour declaration gave the jews what's not rightfully theirs.
brilliant post jamal!
and perfect photo...never seen him in a casual setting..
Occupation, instead of answering ali, you could answer mirvat.
"however who is an occupier? the israelis are occupiers of jerusalem, king david's city?"
I like the term, kind david's city, if you call it that you can justify anything right?
If a land once belonged to someone, you cannot come thousands of years later claiming it it yours. I would understand tens of years, maybe a couple of hundreds, but thousands!
Would it make sense if arabs claims Spain because once upon a time the moors conquered it? just because they have the same religion? Or indian americans kicking european american from their homes for the same reason?
In all cases you are the one who mentionned Jerusalem here, how about shebaa farms don't you occupy it? how about all of the golan? How about the settlements in the west bank ?
Dude there were jews in Egypt to, maybe you should go claim it yours next! It's the land of moses after all!
"kurdistan? .. tibet ?"
I support every people's fight for independence. So what's your point?
"if jews have no nationalistic rights to hebron then why should lebanon even be a state since syria claims it?"
Of all the arguments the Lebanese have against syria's claims for Lebanon NONE of them involves religion! How are the situations comparable?
"open up the can of worms and it will get ugly..."
Not really ... We are consistent.
Religion does not give you a right to take the land of others. Simple.
In the late 1940 you came to this lands and claimed it your (except for the 25,000 jews who lived here who have as much right to the land as the arabs who were here) you came from Europe and russia and elsewhere claiming your religion gives you rights you don't have.
And I tell you from now, if you manage to take all of gaza and the west bank and the golan, and have peace for a few hundred years then suddenly the descendands of palestinian people who had left their land and were OK with it for hundreds of years decide they want their land back, then they would have no more rights to it... But that's not the case, not even close.
TAC
---------Between 3000 and 1100 B.C., Canaanite civilization covered what is today Israel, the West Bank, Lebanon and much of Syria and Jordan...
no other peoples? then you skip 900 years.... to the year zero....
---------Those who remained in the Jerusalem hills after the Romans expelled the Jews [in the second century A.D.] were a potpourri: farmers and vineyard growers, pagans and converts to Christianity, descendants of the Arabs, Persians, Samaritans, Greeks and old Canaanite tribes
So you are saying the Jewish areas were ethnically cleansed of jews? There were still jews there in small numbers.
--------The extended kingdoms of David and Solomon, on which the Zionists base their territorial demands, endured for only about 73 years...Then it fell apart...[
The ZIONISTS base their demands on the UN in 1948. As for biblical history Dont sell us short, Kingdom of Judah, Kingdom of israel, the Unified Kingdoms, and dont forget the return to Judan by the KING of Persia Cyrus...and the tribal areas of the 10 tribes. Not to mention the areas IN the arab world from Medina to Alexandria, not to mention Bavel... the Jewish areas... thanks for erasing 3000 yrs of history, but no thanks
-------The land of Palestine was inhabited by Palestinian Arabs. In 1850 these consisted of approximately 400,000 Muslims, 75,000 Christians, and 25,000 Jews. For centuries these groups had lived in harmony: 80 percent Muslim, 15 percent Christian, 5 percent Jewish.
the "land" of palestine was occupied by the Ottomans, and there were arabs, christians and jews there. For centuries the people lived in peace since the moslems conquered the area in 638 and forced the jews and christians to bow to the greatness of islam.... some peace... peace under the threat of death.. yep, from 638 til the crusaders came, islamic peace.... the murder by the christians, the more peaceful murder by the islamic kurd saladin... then in 1244 the murderous islamic egyptians gave us peace for a few more centuries, then the murderous mamelukes, then the murderous islamic ottomans...
yep peace...
.....the british occupied palestine as is and the 1917 balfour declaration gave the jews what's not rightfully theirs.
the brits gave a hole lot of arabs countries too that were not thiers to give too...
dude occupation .. get over it
king david 's kingdom was gone 2000 years ago.
the jews who are really from here don't even want israel to be around http://nkusa.org see for yourself.
Palestine has been arabic for 2000 years. and Even God or G-d (hehe) wanted jews to be scattered around the globe.
so if you really are that attached to your religion do as G-d (hehe) says.
and check your history little "occupation" not written by arabs, but my Americans http://http://ifamericansknew.org/
and Israel will be gone in 50 years anyway, and guess what with zero violence. Palestenians and israely arabs generally get more kids, so no matter how much israel
imports citizens from outside, arabs will outnumber you soon. in fact they will be 7 millions in like 10 years.
so just preapre yourself to be a minority.
have fun with the zionist state, temporarily :)
oh by the way, just a quick google search on jews against zionism reveals 2,440,000 hits... so stop talking in the name of jews :).
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=jews+against+zionism&btnG=Google+Search
dude occupation .. get over it -king david 's kingdom was gone 2000 years ago.
Ok, fine, so 1948, the UN created israel, get over it....
kodder - the jews who are really from here don't even want israel to be around http://nkusa.org see for yourself.
congrats in finding a SMALL tiny group of jews that agree with you..
kodder - Palestine has been arabic for 2000 years.
actually, about 11oo years...
kodder - and Even God or G-d (hehe) wanted jews to be scattered around the globe.
you dont believe in God (pagan) or G-d (jewish concept of writing infinity, to much of a concept for you to understand) How you KNOW what being scattered really means? What does it say about creating a NEW israel? Please dont take small lines out of context.
kodder - so if you really are that attached to your religion do as G-d (hehe) says.
I am attached to the concept that all peoples have the right to have self determination. If the fake people palestine have a right to a country, so do the jews, if the fake people jordan have a right to a country, so do i, if the fake euro-lebanese have a right to a country so do I, and yes if the fake people egypt can kill all thier original egyptians and claim a country, so do I
kodder - and check your history little "occupation" not written by arabs, but my Americans http://http://ifamericansknew.org/
written by americans,... wow now that is an endorsement if ever i heard one...
kodder - and Israel will be gone in 50 years anyway, and guess what with zero violence. Palestenians and israely arabs generally get more kids, so no matter how much israel imports citizens from outside, arabs will outnumber you soon. in fact they will be 7 millions in like 10 years. so just preapre yourself to be a minority. have fun with the zionist state, temporarily :)
I LOVE that one... You dont seem to understand kodder, Israel has withdrawn from 99% of disputed areas, those fake palestinians or normal arabs if you like, are NOT part of israel, they are part of palestine... the Israel arabs that LIVE in israel are no threat they LOVE ISRAEL. No kodder, your still backing a dying ship and all you can do is bark at those evil zionists... how sad. 50 yrs from now? Hmmm... oil will be useless and worthless, thus causing the entire arab world to contract, no more free money for nothing. The arab world 50 yrs from now? Inventing what? Nothing? Creating and producing what? Nothing? Building what? Nothing? Yep tell ya what kodder, Israel is back, get used to it, or shun it. Personally i hope you shun it. PLease dont use any of those israeli inventions already invented or sure to come... please live in a cave...
Occupation ...
"no other peoples? then you skip 900 years.... to the year zero...."
No occupation ... lots of other people. All of them have the same rights.
For some reason you seem to think Zionists have more rights even if they were born in russia and their parents converted to judaism a couple of years before that magically when they converted they got rights to that Land.
"The ZIONISTS base their demands on the UN in 1948."
Oh please! You base your demands on the UN?
Have you ever taken a look at the map in UN resolution 181 ?
You want an answer to "what is occupation" just a look at the UN map of 1947.
"yep peace..."
So you consider your peace any better than all the peace of the murderes before you?
Not they nor you have any more moral right to that land ... No matter what you make yourself think.
"the brits gave a hole lot of arabs countries too that were not thiers to give too..."
Of course none of it was theirs to give. The countries belong to the people who lived there when the British conquered and left.
What other country was given to people who did NOT LIVE THERE ?
None.
You can argue all you want that Lebanon and Syria would be one country or that Lebanon should be divided to 10 countries and that can be debated but to argue that Lebanon for example should be given to the some population in Russia because they share the same religion (pageans) as the phoenicians who lived here a few thousands years ago is beyond ridiculous!
So how come you want it to makes sense to give the land of palestine (or land of Israel no matter what you call it) to the people from russia or europe because they share the same religion as the kings who lived here a thousand years ago!
And again, the jews who lived here all the time have a very valid claim and argument, but the 90% majority of Zionist jews who flew in from all over the globe have no right at all. (which does not mean they should be kicked or cleansed, just that they have no moral claim to the land at all)
TAC
TAC..
keep it simple, in 1948 israel was created, and then the arab world kicked out 700,00 jews from thier lands.
palestine COULD have been created if they had wanted it....
the Jews that had lived in Israel before 1948 numbered far greater than 25,000. In fact there are more arabs in israel today than there were in 1948. as you say, the arabs have 21 nations covering 5,000,000 square miles of land, israel has 5,000 cant live with that split?
what is your suggestion? 2,000 square miles for israel? and 5,003,000 for the arab world? will that bring a good result?
"in 1948 israel was created," ... "what is your suggestion?"
My suggestion is THE SAME AS WHAT YOU ARE ADVOCATING MINUS THE HYPOCRISY!
Occupation here is the U.N. map you claim to follow.
You said earlier "You dont seem to understand kodder, Israel has withdrawn from 99% of disputed areas,"
YOU don't seem to understand occupation, 99% does not mean whatever you want it to mean.
See GAZA on that map? It is FOUR times as big as it is now. 75% of it, YOU OCCUPY.
See the north? is was PALESTINE along most of the border with Lebanon. All that part YOU OCCUPY it now.
ACCORDING TO THE UN.
At least have the decency to admit you don't care about the UN or its maps, you take whatever you want and make it yours, then at least you won't seem as hypocrite.
About the number of square miles ... I'll reply in a next post. Just to give you time to reply to this one.
TAC
haha funny about the square miles thing...
Imagine you have a big house that can hold 20 persons, but its for your own... you are rich.
but some guys comes in and takes 2 bedrooms and doesn't allow you in, and if you try to take them back you say, you got 18 other rooms stay there.
and beofre you say the other guy had it before: the other guy didn't live in it for 2000 years.
snif...
I already said the UN map is fine by me, but to answer your square miles question just on principle.
The problem with the number of square miles is this: The arab people living in palestine Israel get nothing to their advantage if there are millions arabs sqyare miles in each direction!
Would you think it would be fair to take the displaced palestinians (or kurds or tibetians) and give them a small country (say TEXAS) in the USA ? the usa has millions of square kilometers to spare do you think they accept to give the palestinians a piece ? that would definetely solve many conflicts?
Of course they would never accept no matter how much land they have!
And even if the rest of the US accepts, the texans would NEVER accept!
That's what happened here. Europeans and specifically Germans treated you badly , the British and europeans (to compensate for that) sent the jew over here and you want the arabs to accept, and the palestinians to accept! After all they are not texans we can force anything up to their throat!
All this is just on principle as I said, UN maps are fine by me (noting that the land is not mine to give either so my acceptance means little)
TAC
Nice Gazon :p
good reply Anonymous :)
register yourself, and lets gang up against that guy, it will be fun.
heck lately he is my main entertainment.
Kodder be gentle with 'what is occupation' i think he's really challenged. i mean i don't think he's being stubborn on purpose or that he's distorting history for a certain agenda or anything.. no i think he's genuinely ignorant god bless him and not very bright. that's not his fault.
kodder, you crack me up! You go, baby!
sho 3am beser hon?
it's really fun to read this.
i have to say great entertainment..
jamal,yalla 3edeh arrab,barki botlob menak t2elleh shu 3am be2olo the stars,:):)
kodder,3a mahlak 3leh la hal m3attar,2ata3tilo nafaso:P:P
ok, let's review
you folks can wipe out 3000 yrs of jewish history in less than a nano-second, still bitch that israel was created, dismiss the 700,000 jews thrown out of the arab world as non-persons.. and think israel was transported from germany in 1944? right?
ok.. so you dont want israel to exist...
what is my answer? to bad. it does.
as for your fake peoples palestine, they too now exist.
so now, that you have won the great war, let's not count destruction, wounded or casualties, what has lebanon won?
let's see..
hugh piles of rubble...
the spineless lebanese army is actually traveling in the south of the country, 1st time in 30 yrs! wow, hope they have maps!
a skyrocketing unemployment rate
destruction of 20 yrs worth of rebuilding
lebanon now hold 2 israels hostage and has selected body parts of jews from the battle field
you killed 150 israelis (25 of them arabs)
congrats with your victory, may you have many more...
oh great news from germany!
more arrested!
Lebanon arrests fourth suspect in German bomb case BEIRUT - The Lebanese authorities have arrested a fourth suspect in connection with a plan to bomb two trains in Germany and have filed preliminary charges against five Lebanese and a Syrian.
Four of the Lebanese are in Lebanese custody, while one Lebanese and the Syrian are in Germany, they added.
They face charges of attempted mass murder in passenger trains in Germany and attempted arson, they said.
Khalil al-Bubbu , Jihad Hamad, Khaled Kheireddin al-Hajj, Ayman Hawa, Youssef al-Hajj and Fadi al-Saleh, the Syrian.
such nice boys....
fighting the evil zionists in germany right/ oh that's right all the german jews live in israel? right?
now that we have our positions...
you state: israel should be destroyed
I state: no thanks
what is to be done? Does this blog represent your people that your wish for ever lasting war? or are there terms to be concluded that dont have EITHER israel OR lebanon completely destroyed?
Here is a promise. Lebanon will not allowed to take shots at israel or allow hezbollah to take shots at israel anymore. All attacks coming from lebanon will be treated as lebanese. My question is simple, do you wish to survive? or are you wishing to destroy your country..
kodder & others your behavior is quite amazing... You seem to be in a self destruct mode. Is the best and brightest that lebanon offeres? I still ask.... BESIDES israels destruction what are terms for peace? Israel will not die, nor will Israel allow the palestinians to take it over, they are GONE from israel. So what is your end game? piles of rubble? death? destruction? The next war you might be suprised if Israel doesnt hold it's powder back. You bitch and complain about total destruction, you have seen anything yet. Israel used about 5% of it's ability do you think the next attack from lebanon will go easier? Is this your goal?
"what is occupation" has to change his name to "what is spam"
hilal,
love the LACK of response....
Just PROVES my points...
Mr.What is Occupation, we don't care! For us it will be renewal all the way! Iran will pay ou beloved Sayyed even more, those who lost property to your bombs will be given the means to do home improvement projects even more often and the dead will be replaced too! All while Israeli society will rot in stodginess and get older.
now we have a thoughtful response:
vrai14mars said...
Mr.What is Occupation, we don't care! For us it will be renewal all the way! Iran will pay ou beloved Sayyed even more, those who lost property to your bombs will be given the means to do home improvement projects even more often and the dead will be replaced too! All while Israeli society will rot in stodginess and get older.
Yes folks denile aint just a river in egypt! Same old amazing thought process... iran will pay, lebanon will rebuilt, and israel will rot..
Newsflash, what is the state of the arab world? do they INVENT or CREATE? Do they live on oil like it will never end? People are replaceable like cattle?
you state " Israeli society will rot in stodginess and get older." wishful thinking on your part. This victory for lebanon has energized israel! Israelis are MORE determined to BUILD a great country INSPITE of you, the palestinians and the iranians. Look to Israel to lead the way in medical research, bio-tech, nano-tech, water desalinization, microchips, programing advances just to name a few.
Like I said before...
If all you can do is bark like a dog at the zionists while your people literally kill each other with false pride, you are no threat, except to yourselves.
You are way too angry Mr.What is Occupation waf waf
vral,
not angry, just proving my point...
If the lebanese cannot come to grips with reality, they will destroy themselves... Just like allowing hezbollah into your country will destroy you..
who is angry? I can ALLOW lebanon to be a country, can you and yours ALLOW israel the same right?
who is impodent? who is in denial? who's people cant even control it own lands...
Either Lebanon has to BE a country and control it's lands, or it doesnt deserve the title of "country" If Lebanon doesnt want peace with Israel, fine, just dont cry to the world that you have war.
such a waste of human potenial...
Occupation,
Did you really disappear for two days after my post showing you the UN maps then show up again here to complain about the lack of response, respond to people who don't exist, answer questions no one asked and make up conspiracy theories and answer them by yourself?
Jamal, is something wrong with the blog postings or is he on a trip to the land of pink mushrooms, can you shed some light?
TAC
Did you really disappear for two days after my post showing you the UN maps then show up again here to complain about the lack of response, respond to people who don't exist, answer questions no one asked and make up conspiracy theories and answer them by yourself?
no sorry, took the 2 days off..
but your maps of 1947 mean nothing. in 1948 the UN offered a 2 state solution, again the maps mean nothing. 700,000 jews were thrown out of the arab world which mean nothing to you. and the populations of 100's of jewish villages mean nothing to you.
so your 1947 map is meaningless. it proves nothing.
TAC, how about this reality.. More jews in arab lands lost thier homes then so called palestians. care to comment on that?
what lands are ok for israel to have by you? any? and if there is to be a settlement, what is the arab world offering for the thief of the property of the jews? any at all, or just some palestinians?
On the subject of mushrooms, for those who don't mind French, one of my best short entries (as Golda Meir said: "don't be so humble, you're not that great" ... sorry to borrow your leaders Mr. WIO) on my blog on www.truemarch14.com more or less mirrored on www.vrai14mars.blogspot.com was on our beloved Nasrallah, Litani of Thought, who discovered a few days into the war that "there were no red lines" ... Red lines he could obviously have seen only with the help of good old mushrooms ... Oh well.
Occupation,
Thanks for admitting the UN maps don't mean anything to you, before I comment on anything else you say I need to understand what you just did.
So you took two days off, I hope you had fun. But when you came back to the blog who were you replying to ? In the three consecutive comeback posts that ended with the post "you state: israel should be destroyed", who were you talking to? Who stated that "israel should be destroyed"?
Are there people who talk to you on this blog that the rest of us cannot read?
TAC
woah I go have fun for 2 days and plenty of answers.
so what is "occupation" how does it feel to be busted by the whole world?
even Americans your faithful followers/superiors depends on who (people/government) are startint to questionning
everything in the middle east, how does it feel when you are losing everything in the worlds eyes?
the excuse of poor us israelies , we are only defending ourselves is gone forever.
the 3000 years of history you talk about was still there, the jews were always here. but zionists were not.
israelies are zionists, and they use judaism as pretext for murders, taking land and racial genocides.
oh too bad for you, now even jews are standing against you around the world. Jews are refusing that you talk in their names.
how does it feel eh mr "occupation"? you know what zionists are? they are the bin ladin of judaism. They kill kill kill and they do it
in the name of their religion. but sooner or later real jews will kick your asses, and their words are starting to rise already...
as I showed you before but you didn't dare to reply google for jews against zionism... 2.440.000 hits...
so better stop talking in the name of judaism.
Occupation,
Thanks for admitting the UN maps don't mean anything to you, before I comment on anything else you say I need to understand what you just did.
tac, dont take words out of context... I stated your 1947 maps mean nothing...
tac: So you took two days off, I hope you had fun. But when you came back to the blog who were you replying to ?
please notice i DO post what i am responding to... that way things are in context...
tac: Who stated that "israel should be destroyed"?
kodder for one...
again, i state the simple point, SINCE lebanon attacked israel in 1948 and has a declared state of war with her. WHAT would be the acceptable israeli state to YOU.
Kodder said... so what is "occupation" how does it feel to be busted by the whole world?
how so? last i checked it was lebanese being arrested.
kodder: even Americans your faithful followers/superiors depends on who (people/government) are startint to questionning everything in the middle east, how does it feel when you are losing everything in the worlds eyes?
again, what are you trying to say? in fact more arab governments and other countries have relations with israel than at any other time in her history.
kodder: the excuse of poor us israelies , we are only defending ourselves is gone forever.
no, as long as lebanon and hezbollah have a state of war with israel, there is war...
kodder: the 3000 years of history you talk about was still there, the jews were always here. but zionists were not.
israelies are zionists, and they use judaism as pretext for murders, taking land and racial genocides.
jews were always here, as way the kingdom of zion, just sometimes others stole our lands. as for racial genocides, please tell me where israel has committed genocide? you still miss the fact that there are MORE arabs in israel today than in 1948..
kodder: oh too bad for you, now even jews are standing against you around the world. Jews are refusing that you talk in their names.
please name ONE that is not a moron...
Kodder: they kill kill kill and they do it
in the name of their religion. but sooner or later real jews will kick your asses, and their words are starting to rise already...
and yet 44,000 were killed in lebanon by lebanese hands during your civil war, israel killed HOW many? please when stating facts, USE the same standards..
oh that's right you cannot..
kodder: as I showed you before but you didn't dare to reply google for jews against zionism... 2.440.000 hits...
so better stop talking in the name of judaism.
what does that prove? hits on a website?
ok great standard: how about arab terrorism 16,500,00
arab terrorism 16,600,000
lebanon war crimes 9,960,000
bin laden 64,500,000
palestinian crimes 11,300,000
arab crimes 10,200,000
hezbollah crimes 7,920,000
islamic terror 16,300,000
islamic honor killings 5,380,000
hmm...
occupation,
first a nitpick, when you are quoting someone, use the same words they use, you said kodder stated "israel should be destroyed" whereas -as everyone else can see- you are the only person on this page who has used the words destroy/destroyed/destruction (read it back if you want) ... but that's between you and kodder and it is not my problem.
My issue with you is the UN resolution of 1947/1948 while you claim to follow ... I'll reply in a little while and put things back in context for you before we move to new points ;-)
TAC
You say "but your maps of 1947 mean nothing. in 1948 the UN offered a 2 state solution"
I call your UN resolution of 1948 and raise you a UN resolution that asked for Israelis to go to Orange County California.
Can you show me the UN resolution of 1948 you are talking about? I'll show the one I am talking about if you do. (end of sarcasm)
Seriously though that was haha funny, we all know you just made it up.
Your declaration of independence says "On November 29, 1947, the United Nations General Assembly passed a resolution calling for the establishment of a Jewish State in Israel"
There is no other offer in 1948 by the UN for a 2 state solution other the one I showed you (UN resolution 181 of 1947) and you already said it means nothing to you. So now you are contradicting yourslef do want us to base the discussion on the UN plan or not?
So to sum it up you said in this thread "The ZIONISTS base their demands on the UN in 1948" and "Israel has withdrawn from 99% of disputed areas" can you back that up with anythign substancial like references/links to the lands that "according to the UN" belong to the palestinians and how you withdrawed from 99% of them.
Go ahead, show us that OTHER UN resolution of 1948 and we can talk about it.
If you want us to move to other issues, fine, just say you made up those numbers (99%) and some mysterious UN resolutions of 1948 on which "Zionists base their demands" and we'll move right along, I am eager to knock down the rest of your claims :-)
TAC
Anonymous said...
You say "but your maps of 1947 mean nothing. in 1948 the UN offered a 2 state solution"
I call your UN resolution of 1948 and raise you a UN resolution that asked for Israelis to go to Orange County California.
Can you show me the UN resolution of 1948 you are talking about? I'll show the one I am talking about if you do. (end of sarcasm)
I was wrong, i was referring to the original 1947 181, but i forgot that was not accepted by the arabs and of course the war dragged out into 1948...
the original maps of the partition was made null and void the moment the arab's refused it and attacked. thus CHANGING the proposed settlement.
I was wrong about my dates... I was right in saying the offer that was refused by the arabs makes the offer null and void...
but i follow up again...
do you accept israel right to be...
and what are your terms> go back to the 181 BEFORE the arabs attacked?
no other country needs to return to borders AFTER it was attacked by others, why should israel?
the arab world now calls for 1967 borders, always going back to the previous offer it refused...
israel has withdrawn from gaza and 40% of the west bank, what is your position about jewish refugees that were thrown out of the moab?
Occupation,
you are trying to change subjects too fact in the hope that the people will forget what you said earlier.
You say "and what are your terms> go back to the 181 BEFORE the arabs attacked?
no other country needs to return to borders AFTER it was attacked by others, why should israel?"
Don't try to make it seem as if I am the one who is trying to impose on you which year we should go back to.
Unluckily for you, YOU ARE THE ONE WHO SAID "The ZIONISTS base their demands on the UN in 1948." I only showed that you are lying and that there are no UN resolutions of 1948 , the closest are the ones of 1947 which later you said you didn't care about.
I am not the one who asked Israel to go back that far, I am only discussing this point BECAUSE YOU LIED ABOUT IT and thought no one will check the facts up.
Same for your statement "israel has withdrawn from 99% of disputed areas".
So now that you backed up from your original claims and are admitted that your 1948 statement was bull (you are now advocating post 1967), and that the 99% statement was a lie too (you are down to 40% now), we can go on to the next argument.
Hold on for the next post.
TAC
You cite the number of "700,000 jews were thrown out of the Arab world", and ask me "More jews in arab lands lost thier homes then so called palestians. care to comment on that?"
I have two minor comments which I will state briefly but they are not important in the reply to you:
1 - You Zionists and Israelis have been trying to convince us all along that YOU want jews to have a country of their own the can live in now you are trying to blame us that the arab jews listened to you and moved there losing their homes behind? I could argue they moved because YOU asked them to and it would make sense, but I won't, there is an easier way.
2 - If the arabs acted in a racist way towards jews that does not mean you have the right to kick palestinians. The point is not if the Arabs are racists (I think they probably are) the argument is if YOU are racist and commit crimes and I am sure you are even if the arabs are too. But that too is not my main reply to you.
My main reply is this: Occupation, as always you are just a liar.
You statement "More jews in arab lands lost thier homes then so called palestians." is simply a lie, you threw it out in the wild hoping no one will check the numbers, but I did.
In this map (source US Holocost Museum), it cites the number of people from the WHOLE WORLD immigrating to Israel each year ... 1948 : 120,000 , 1949 : 240,000 , 1950 : 170,000 , from the WHOLE WORLD not just arab land.
So let's see according to the UN in 1950 how many palestinian refugees had lost their homes: The UN (paragraph 15) says the number was 711,000 much higher than the number of jews kicked by arabs (or the whole world) back then.
Unless you think the US Holocaust Museum and the UN are conspiring to make your numbers look bad ?
But maybe you want the total number until this day and not only the numbers right after the 1948 war, fine by me.
I will assume 700,000 (the number you gave) is the number for the jews, According to the UN again UNRWA cites 4.1 million Palestinian refugees in 2002
While you pull your numbers and facts out of thin air, I rely on UN documents to prove you wrong.
So you see no matter how you take it you were just lying and hoping I would not notice it.
I guess you will react by saying that point is not important and throw other "facts" and new numbers and figures trying to drag me into yet a again a new completely different argument so I have to do more research to show you are lying again.
Unfortunately the weekend is over and I won't be having as much time during the week, so your lies will be unchecked till I find the time and will to dig up UN documents again.
TAC
ps: in the first UN document it is appendix 4 paragraph 15, in the second document just search for the word million.
Abdul Rahman Hilmi , Summer 2005: Syrian blockade. You're right. Lebanon should have two bad frontiers. Idiot.
wow, you do playt loose and fast with fats and out of context
you state:
According to the UN again UNRWA cites 4.1 million Palestinian refugees in 2002
and yet...
no other people in the world are "refugees" several generations except palestinians..
you cannot count grandkids of refugees...
you say I lie?
you use distortion on purpose...
Israeli sources state from the VERY SAME LINK YOU PROVIDED palestnians refugees numbered about 420,000
quote: The UN estimates their number at 711,000 [1] while the Israeli estimate of the refugees is 420,000 and the Palestinian estimate is 900,000. The degree to which the flight of the refugees was voluntary or involuntary is hotly debated. Some cases of expulsion are well-documented, such as in Lydda and Ramle. So is the attempt by some Jewish leaders in Haifa to stem the flight [2], and that some Arab leaders called for evacuation of civilian Arabs from the war zone. How much each factor has contributed is disputed.
Your very same souce quotes 520,000 jews from 1948 FORWARD. however YOUR VERY OWN SOURCE STATES:
After a series of wars with neighboring Arab countries, almost all of the 900,000 Jews previously living in North Africa and the Middle East fled to the Jewish state,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews
who lies? i think you do... out of context, cut and paste...
900,000 jews from the moab... 410,000 arabs from israel...
today, ZERO ARE LEFT IN THE ARAB WORLD
today Israel has a MILLION ARAB CITIZENS....
spin it any way you wish... the arab world is the racist world.... israel actually HAS a sizeable arab population...
thank you for using a source, i used it, and it PROVED my point,
as for 99% of the disputed lands...
the sinai was returned, gaza was returned, lebanon was returned, a SMALL area of golan heights and west bank are disputed...
land mass.... the arab world has 5,000,000 square miles, israel is 8,000 square miles..
who are the greedy bastards? who declared war in 1947? the arabs jack...
you cannot keep pointing back to lost opportunities that the arab world tossed and want back since they lost...
those are facts jack...
here is a suggestion...
lebanon (which is in a state of war that it started with israel) shall be punished by loss of lands forever for any and all additional attacks that it makes.
how is that?
"...and yet...
no other people in the world are "refugees" several generations except palestinians..
you cannot count grandkids of refugees...
you say I lie?
you use distortion on purpose... "
"What is Occupation"
you are funny you know..who in the world uses the argument of returning to a land that maybe was theirs 2000 years ago other than Israel?
Who in the world Justifies destruction of homes, expulsion of indegenous people and building of settlments so that People from all over the world can come and live in it "peacefully"?..
You are funny indeed..
Your arguments make me so depressed.
I am sick of lies and distorted arguments that justify killing and illegal occupation.
as you speak your govt is approving more settlments..check Haaretz..is that the Peace you are seeking????
Occupation,
The parties in conflic can hardly be reliable sources, both you and the palestinians have interrest to twist the numbers in your favor that's why anyone looking for truth (instead of just propaganda from either side) will look at the UN estimates and not the parties in conflict. In the documents I posted I chose the neutral UN numbers, while you chose the one sided Israeli numbers, I am sure the palestinians will use the other one sided palestinian numbers, still it is obvious who among us is looking for the truth and who is pushing his country's agenda.
But still I'll show you one last time how you are trying -and failing miserably- twist the facts in your favor :
"900,000 jews from the moab... 410,000 arabs from israel..."
You yourself stated that the 900,000 jews number is from 1948 till now including all the arab wars 1948, 1956, 1967, 1973, 1982 ...
While the 410,000 number for arabs is ISRAEL's estimation for 1948 ONLY.
Not only you are using one side of the conflicts numbers (instead of the more neutral UN like I did) But you are comparing the number of refugees for one year 1948 (for arabs) with the number of refugees for tens of years for jews thinking again, no one will notice.
I didn't need to dig up one reference to call your bluff this time ;-)
See no hands.
TAC
as you speak your govt is approving more settlments..check Haaretz..is that the Peace you are seeking????
actually correct, there are new settlements by BOTH PALESTINIANS and Israelis in the DISPUTED lands of the west bank..
in fact hundreds of new palestinian settlements have gone up in the west bank on disputed lands...
tac,
no matter how many you state or i state we disagree..
but this is a fact...
the arab world is juden free...
israel is 25% arab (over a million)
the arab world holds 5 million square miles of land, israel is 8 thousand square miles
the arab world has 21 1/2 nations, the islamic world holds about 83 nations, the jews have one..
since 1947 the arab world has declared war on israel.
the arab world never has accepted israel's right to be
the arab world has lost ever attempt to destroy israel
so now the arab world and the palestinians are the victims..
get over it... the 100 square miles of disputed lands are just that..
if it is a LAND dispute you will have no trouble on saying that israel as a jewish nation has a right to be.
but you dont say that
go ahead... say it...
israel has a right to be a jewish state.. bet ya cant!
oh that's right in lebanon that would be against the law?
Occupation,
Going back to arguments you already lost will do you no good.
You are coming back to the argument of "square miles" after you lost it about 15 comments back up, if you had any complains about the argument then why did you stay silent all this time, were you hoping we'f forget we already argued about it? At least make an effort of refuting the square miles response I gave you instead of pretending you never read it an block your eyes and ears and screm la la la la.
Second, let's up the stakes a bit, I accept your bet, the one who loses will shut up for a couple of weeks on this blog ;-)
OK ?
btw previous comment was by TAC, yalla occupation waiting to see if you can stand by your bet or will back off at the last second.
still silent tac? i proved my points with your own sources, but we cannot agree on those things
sp i still ask the simple question to which you cannot answer...
does israel have a right to be...
simple question... yes or no...
backing up from a bet occupation?
It was a bet three posts up, I took the bet and will answer, do you agree on the conditions of the bet (don't worry even if you don't agree I will answer)
Just want to know if you can stand up for your beleif or will back down again from the bet when challenged :-)
Just say you accept the bet, or you refuse it, and I will answer anyway.
TAC
What is occupation: I am fed up with ur nonsense arguments, which are the same advanced by israeli propagandists everywhere in the world, and have no ground what so ever .
1: the right of return to a land that you left 2000 years ago, holds no ground, especially for people who live on this land in the present time, and who do not share ur religious or mythical beliefs
2: the british mandate(notice the word MANDATE) had no legal right in promising jews the land of a THIRD nation (Palestine)
3: the UN clearly states the right of people to self determination and that was disregarded while creating israel, because it didn't hold a referendum asking the population whether they agreed or not on the creation of a jewish state in Palestine, and second in case of an agreement the land offered to jews was not proportional to their population at the time, not to mention it gave them the best farming lands and more access to the sea.
3- because of reasons 1 and 2, palestinians had every right to be angree and refuse the resolution (after all no one consulted with them) and they fought it, they lost because they were not trained soldiers (they were essentially poor farmers) and king farouk who collaborated with the brits betrayed them and didn't really fight by their side.
4- palestenian fled because of the war, and regardless their number they have the right to return, and there is a UN resolution about it
"today, ZERO ARE LEFT IN THE ARAB WORLD"
that was a consequence of the conflict, which resulted in anger wrongfully directed to local jewish populations, and when israel agrees on compensating palestenian refugees it's only fair to compensate those too
"today Israel has a MILLION ARAB CITIZENS....
spin it any way you wish... the arab world is the racist world.... israel actually HAS a sizeable arab population..."
yes, but israel is not called for nothing an appartheid state, by many people around the world, it's allowing arabs there to stay a democarcy in face of public opinion it relies on for financial and political support, but it treats those arabs as fifth class citizens, deniying them even equal compensation for the recent war(check haaretz), and several other rights like marrying non israeli citizens, but the world is waking up to this reality.
"as for 99% of the disputed lands...
the sinai was returned, gaza was returned, lebanon was returned, a SMALL area of golan heights and west bank are disputed..."
Sinai was returned as a price for peace with egypt, the biggest potential threat to israel, you stayed in lebanon for 20 years after the PLO had gone, and despite another UN resolution, so mentionning this hurts ur cause even more, as for gaza and the west bank u did not want to annex it with it's population so muslim arabs don't become a majority in israel(because ethnically cleansing them won't go unnoticed!!)
"land mass.... the arab world has 5,000,000 square miles, israel is 8,000 square miles.."
that's the funniest statement of all, what moral obligation have the arab world to give israel a land for it's state? as I recall jews were expelled by the romans, persecuted by the germans, I see no mention for arabs as an entity in these historical events, after this, jews have the right to their state to protect themselves from europeen antisemitism, but it was to wrong doers(europe and especially germany) to compensate you, and give you a state on an inhabitated land where no one bothers you or declare war on you, and why not ask ur biggest ally, the US?
All that said, now that arabs have resigned to the bitter reality and offered a peace for land deal that includes a viable state for palestenians in the 1967(and not the 1948) borders and the recognition of israel by all the arabs, which would end all wars and exsistential threats to israel,
you refuse and want more, you commit slow genocide against palestenians and isolate them with ur appartheid wall,
tell me how this will grant you peace and security?
I'd like an answer to that.
no, i will not accept your additional bullshit...
be a man.. not a coward...
if your spinless people deserve a country, if those fake peoples palestine deserve a country, do the israelis?
come on.. speak with your own mind.. is that possible?
hehehe occupation,
I knew you would back down when the heat is up, next time don't say "I bet you can't" if you're gonna back down a couple of comments later.
If calling me a coward makes you feel better after you backed up on your bet then fine, if calling the palestinians fake people and the lebanese spineless make you feel better about stealign land then fine again. no one expected any better from you.
The the point of this discussion is not really to try to convince you, it is also to entertain other readers and watch you back off every time and try to change subjects and try to make every one forget that you were the tough guy making tough bets and statement a couple of posts above then trying to hide the fact that you made them, and beleive me lots are enjoying it.
In all cases, of course ISRAEL HAS THE RIGHT TO EXIST, I never said otherwise, if you were smart, you would have noticed that I had accepted the maps of 1947 at the begining of our discussion, how can I deny Israel the right to exist and accept the maps that give it that right.
For some reason your paranoia makes you think everyone is out to get you.
You cannot comprehend that someone thinks you have the right to exist without agreeing with your stealing of land and your killing of palestinians and Lebanese and your absurd justifications for killing civilians and children.
Your hypocrisy makes you think anyone who accepts your right to exist will accept all the atrocities you commit and all the justifications you give for occupying other countries.
Again now that I said what three posts above you "bet i could not say" and answered the "simple question to which you cannot answer" you will try to make it look like you never said any of that and it was not that important to you anyways and try to argue about something else ...
TAC
Accouppation, inta bteshrab baccardi bazz? baaaaccccaarrrrdiiiii baazzzzzzzz
Kisskiss
In all cases, of course ISRAEL HAS THE RIGHT TO EXIST, I never said otherwise, if you were smart, you would have noticed that I had accepted the maps of 1947 at the begining of our discussion, how can I deny Israel the right to exist and accept the maps that give it that right.
wow.. a straight comment..
but wait not so straight...
You cannot comprehend that someone thinks you have the right to exist without agreeing with your stealing of land and your killing of palestinians and Lebanese and your absurd justifications for killing civilians and children.
so you think israel has the tight to be, according to the original 1947 un resolution, but after that was refused and israel was attacked by the arabs and the new maps of 1948 came into being you consider that stealing?
when the arab legion was trying to starve the jewish citizens of jerusalem out of existence in 1947-48 was that ok?
lands that israel won against the arabs (since the term palestinain was not used until 1966) were rightly won since the arabs (including the legion) attacked and did NOT accept the UN partition on 1947.
you do twist things oh so well...
fact... the arab world has stolen all jewish lands from almost 900k jews, a fact which by the sources you quote is a fact, twist it any way you choose, but that's more than the 400- 700k so called palestinians displaced by the creation of the state of israel.
fact... israel is 25% arab, the arab world is juden free...
fact.. most arabs are killed by arabs
you love to say "atrocities" and killing civilans and children by israel... and yet you gloss over the lebanese murder of 44,000 of their own, you say nothing about the repeated attempts by the arab world at genocide of israel
in the end this is true, we have our country, you have your country and the fake peoples palestine have theirs. if you cant control them from being launch pads of terror they will be destroyed and that aint a crime.
"What is occupation" refer to my comment above for an answer to ur rhetoric,about the so called "ethnic cleansing" of jews in the arab world, how that come by the way and there are still jews in morocco, even in lebanon? but that's not the issue, because it was a result of the controversed creation of israel and not prior to it.
and stop calling palestenians fake, fake in which aspect?! the only criminal here is u and ur government by slowly genociding palestenian and killing more than 200 in 2 months; while qassams have killed 3 in 5 years! grow some humanity and then maybe we will be able to talk.
occupation,
predictable as ever, you are amazed by the straightness of my comment, then you try to pretend that something else unrelated is much more important and start shouting unrelated "facts" and nonsense to change the subject. :-)
Also predictably, as ignorant as ever, for example in typical occupation bull-o-rama you blurt out : "since the term Palestinain was not used until 1966"
Ever heard of the document called "The Palestine Mandate" written in July 1922 by the League of Nations ? Ever heard of the League of Nations ? I guess I should not expect that from an ignorant like you.
Now go look up that document that talks about Palestine and Palestinians, discover you are stupid, then search the document for some new unrelated factoid and you can use to stir the discussion into a different topic so we forget you uttered such a stupid argument, and we get a chance to discover your ignorance in other areas.
Funnily enough, you are not the only ignorant who has ever used this statement and others have debunked before for example here from a Palestinian man who still has to this day the (British) passport of his grandfather from the 1930s with the word Palestinian written on it, but the racist in you cannot believe or understand that.
I wonder are you guys inventing easily refutable rumors and trying to spread them all over the place? or did you hear it somewhere and really believed it without checking for yourself?
Also please not that since every time you say the word Palestinian you feel the need to add "so called" or "fake", somehow you think this is "proving" they are not real or something but is only showing us YOUR RACISM towards other people.
My only hope is that racists like you are not the norm in your country.
TAC
"What is Occupation"
The answers you were given in these comments make sense to an outside observer.
You can not deny a population the right to exist, because it is convenient for you.
"fake palestenians", what the heck is that supposed to mean? They are not real people? they should disappear? how do you expect the Palestenians to listen to you after you utter the word fake and deny them the right to exist? You think this is a way to bring Peace? (correct me if Peace is not on your agenda,and you only want to score points in an argument, or use ur arguments to justify more land grabing and killing)
Lots of Palestenians, Lebanese, have come to the realisation that Israel is there and they have to live with it (I can not speak for them but that is what I sense from people/articles/ etc...)
I think it is big time to seriously and honestly think about peace..and for that you need to put yourself in the shoes of the others(both sides have to), and understand their fears/ concerns/needs..You can not demonise the other side and expect to make peace with them..Just think about the comments without blind hatred..Read history as written by both sides..do not only think from one narrow angle..
and stop the arrogance..
Israel made mistakes (So did the palestenians and Lebanese). It is OK to admit that it did, maybe that would help bridging the gap..insisting that Israel is all good and was justified in every step will only bring more problems..
The whole world can see how brutal and ruthless the IDF has been in dealing with Civilians and Children.
Trying to change facts is so pathetic that it makes me nauseous.
Times have changed, fortunately the other side now can talk and show their point of view to the rest of the world, so that at least we understand why such a problem ,that if we listen ONLY to one side of the story, should be so easy to solve, has not been solved..
Back to basics:
1- Violence brings more violence (even if later on)
2- Oppression and injustice does not take you far, it may give you the upper hand for a while but it will end.
3- Unless Israel or the Palestenians commit a genocide NO ONE will win..I am assuming both sides are HUMANS who would not agree to a genocide (I know massacres have been committed)..so just get over it , no one is going anywhere..give People rights to live, breath and not fake solutions that you show to the whole world as "a significant sacrifice from the part of Israelis" while in reality they are just a facade to cover lack of justice.
I am sick of ANYONE who justifies killing a civilian, demolishing houses and denying people the rights to their homes..
DO you ever wonder why do the palestenians bother? do you ever wonder why don't they just give up and go live somewhere else?
Maybe it is because they feel strongly about their rights, and they are not "fake"? maybe it is because no other solution is available to them? maybe because thanks to your policies they are living in a big prison and this keep generating more and more hatred?
just ask yourself honestly what do you really want?
TAC
Dehumanizing Palestenians is an ancient zionist practice, from Abraham Yair (head of the jewish terrorist group Lehi) to Schmail Agnoon (a nobel prize winner), it gives israelis good consciense about genociding them, and justifies it in the eyes of the world. Basically it's brainwash for the israeli public, but authors such Amira Haas and Gideon Levy, who actualy go the occupied territories, know what palestenians endure on the hand of the "real occupation", and how nothing can justify such treatment, they also tell that this policy will only generate more hatred and more violence.
Our Mr. occupation is in denial ;)
Cheers
Nausicaa , I completely understand the dehumanizing the ennemy practice, especially when done in a subtle way.
But to blurt the middle of an argument "since the term Palestinain was not used until 1966" hoping no one is going to call your bluff is beyond me.
Or maybe as you said some people are so brainwashed (I am sure on both sides) they truly beleive every utter nonsense they have been fed!
Oh well, there is not much to be done about it.
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