Friday, June 23, 2006

More Sex Talk

This poll was taken in 2003 (Courtesy of : Information International) when the now famous Kodder was in college.

Less than 50% of Females who don't approve of premarital sex state Fear of Family or Society as the reason. So we have roughly 50% of the College Age Society who tolerates premarital sex even if they don't necessarily practice it. On top of that, more than half of those who disapprove of it do so for reasons other than the "Taboo" Factor (i.e. Personal Conviction, Religion, STDs). Some might argue Religion is a Taboo factor but that opens a whole other can of worms.

In my opinion these reasons are to be respected as part of the Lebanese culture and not to be mistaken with evil cock teasing techniques that women practice just to see their loved ones with blue balls.
The tolerance level of premarital sex at USJ for example is probably higher than many conservative western colleges. So, in conclusion, these numbers prove that the Lebanese Society (at least those in their 20s) is not as sexually frustrated as some are arguing.

Whatever your taste is , there is something for you. So what some are labeling as Taboo, I prefer to call Tabooleh. It is something to be cherished and preserved and not something that should be changed.

Enjoy your weekend.


PS: No personal insults will be tolerated.

26 comments:

bashir said...

yalla! min-nel awal!!

MGH said...

"these numbers prove that the Lebanese Society (at least those in their 20s) is not as sexually frustrated"
The figures would rather lead to the following conclusion :
"these numbers prove that the Lebanese Society (at least those in their 20s and attending USJ) is not as sexually frustrated"
so the Lebanese Society is finally sexually frustrated..
Else how would you explain the fact that 99% of our songs talk about love issues?!

JoseyWales said...

-99% of ALL songs deal with love.

-Maybe we can say that by western standards, USJ/Monnot lives (sexually) in the mid-1960's, the rest of Beirut in the 1950's, and the rest of Lebanon in 1910's, with pockets living in the 9th century. ;)

-Thank God the frustration level in Lebanon, as it is, is not high enough to generate 72-virgin wackos (with rare exceptions).

How did the whole sex thing start with Jamal post on Francophonie??? Must be a Franco-French thing: Toujours L'Amour.

Bye now

Kodder said...

I know this poll, In fact I particpated in it.
You should know one thing, people always tend to lie to themselves when doing a poll.
Alot of people will say they do not have a problem with this and that, but when it really happens they do.
and about the famous part :P, I bet I will be forgotten a few days from now. Kodder who?
:P
Anyway the women in here openned my eyes alot on how they perceive men, and why they do not deal with sex well.
I am lucky to see people around me who are very open minded about this issue, maybe I was too confident that men are really changed by the small sample around me.
I loved Lailas comment in the previous post.
and yes as MK said its more about the general repressive attitude in lebanon.
The thing is the 20s that is pictured in here are the early 20s, the late 20s have a really different attitudes in lebanon.
Oh well, wishing for the best.

Laila said...

I think the frustrated here, should be me comparing the poll result with what going on in my country; if such a poll was done here, the result could be totally deferent: Who ever dares to ok the sex before marriage? Marrying a non-virgin? Never! Don't think I'm speaking about the vast majoarity of religious-braiwashed. I'm speaking about even those around me bragging to be atheists. I definitely believe that Islamic rulers have pulled us back on these things. By the way, even before seeing this poll, I was curious to know to which religious sects belong the friends commenting here. You see, I'm totally an American-type-ignorant about Lebanese society and can't recognize these things .

Laila said...

I think the frustrated here, should be me comparing the poll result with what going on in my country; if such a poll was done here, the result could be totally deferent: Who ever dares to ok the sex before marriage? Marrying a non-virgin? Never! Don't think I'm speaking about the vast majoarity of religious-braiwashed. I'm speaking about even those around me bragging to be atheists. I definitely believe that Islamic rulers have pulled us back on these things. By the way, even before seeing this poll, I was curious to know to which religious sects belong the friends commenting here. You see, I'm totally an American-type-ignorant about Lebanese society and can't recognize these things .

Kodder said...

Laila
I am kinda curious about the religious sects too. But I also believe the location that they live in makes alot of difference.
In my opinion (opinion eh?... not necessarly true), the farther you go from beirut or jounieh the less there is openness.(with some small areas exceptions)
Even in beirut, it depends on the area (lets not go into the details).

hashem said...

Khoder, it's not true!

Roderick said...

eh ppl! The poll showed more open minded to premarital sex on the christian side. I'm christian and beleive me, it's not as easy as you saw. Let me tell you something, lebanese are bragger... I bet they just bragged of having sex while they haven't maybe even seen a naked woman in real life BUT on the beach. Lets cut to the chase here, the problem exist and nowadays ppl are more and more opened to new ideas.

jamal
"So what some are labeling as Taboo, I prefer to call Tabooleh. It is something to be cherished and preserved and not something that should be changed." does this opinion reflect you? U look like the typical lebanese now who is trying to ban any idea and playing with words so that they look funny "tabooleh". At least give a meaningfull reasoning.

btw, it's not about religion guys beleive me. Lemme ask you something. When a religion allows its follwers to have more than one wife (For pleasure), that is considered as normal. BUT when one woman and man who are not married and love each other, are not allowed to have sex. So is it only good to have sex under the SIGN of marriage?
As for the cities in Lebanon! Enno go in the direction of jounieh, u'll see more ppl on the road with less clothes on them, so YES there is a big difference in the cities hashem. In ramle el bayda u have to swim wearing your jeans ;) in maameltein soon you'll be swimming wearing your skin ;)
Don't push the limits and lets not go on the religious side, cos it's complicated and TabooLEH mesh heyk jamal? ;)

hashem said...

who was talking about less or more clothes, Roderick? We're talking about the opinion in premarital sex.
The first doesn't necessarily indicate the other.
And btw, you say "Don't push the limits".....mmmmm....in a discussion my friend, you don't set the limits, you agree on them. At least when we're guests on somebody's else blog!
Have a nice weekend everybody.

Laila said...

Bragging on something means you are ok with it -at least- in words. It's a step toward practicing it.

Anonymous said...

Interesting Poll numbers..much better than I expected.I think lebanese people though are the masters of voicing opinions but not practicing them in reality (not everybody, but a good number of lebanese people), still at least the subject is accepted as Laila said..and, yes where u live in lebanon makes a difference, of course there are exceptions everywhere, but in general there are differences..
actually, an interesting thing I found about is "mut3a"..I wonder how many people practice it
Rania

Anonymous said...

Khodder it's not true! Sex is not related to the area!

You can found as much girls engaging in premarital sex in Baalback than in Monot!

Kodder said...

hmmm a few alterations of my nickname with the 90+ comments: Koddor, kodor, Khodor, Khoddor,Khodder.
its Kodder :P.
my name isnt Khodor if that's what you think is pointing too.
my name is Wissam.
:P.

Roderick said...

Everything is depending on something in Lebanon. And everything I mean everything is dependant from the area where you live. The one trying to prove me wrong, should give more convincing idea than saying that "You can found as much girls engaging in premarital sex in Baalback than in Monot!" Of course, but in this case you're talking about ignorant, uneducated people. Besides, who said that Monot is the center of all this? It's all about showing your clothes in Lebanon not more. A decent looking person can be practicing a premarital sex anywhere. When I applied to clothing, it was based on the survey shown, that people who live in the christian area are more open to this subject.

"actually, an interesting thing I found about is "mut3a"..I wonder how many people practice it"
Rania
Roderick said .... When a religion allows its follwers to have more than one wife (For pleasure), that is considered as normal....

That's what I was talking about and only muslim are the one who are 'officially' allowed to practice it. Though in the survey you see how tight they are when it comes to premarital sex. Well I have nthn against religion but this is one thing I consider a conflict in the muslim religion and sometimes .... . Lets not say it, we're not discusting religious issues.

Btw, kHoddor! I like that new name of urs. Better than wissam :p

Kodder said...

Roderick...lets not go into religion stuff...

Anonymous said...

thanks 'beavis' and 'butthead' for the chitchat.

i think it's time for you two to move to the teen chat room and proceed with detailing your invaluable experience about life in there.

you cannot believe how many people are just eager to read what you think about life, washing machine powders, hamburgers with extra cheese and latest 50% sale at GAP.

see you there joy-boys.

Kodder said...

Thank you Anonymous Coward :).

BOB said...

I m really curious about the string of anonymous responses that are a bit on the abusive side.
Why? What did Kodder say that so irked you anonymous people? And why don't u really take part in the discussion or at least state your reasons for not taking place...

For me sex in Lebanon is a complicated issue ( I like stating the obvious :) but I can certainly say that it is a problem and the culprit are both men and women.
So the solution must be found with both:
Men getting less hypocrite ( screwing around and then marrying only virgins, I find that the optimum in hypocrisy) and women in have the courage of following their hearts with no fear of society or the perpetual nightmare of not getting married because i-am-no-longer-a-virgin

Finally, around me ( I grew up in Saida and went to school there, and then went to uni in LAU and AUB) I can certainly say that the place and religion play a big role ( comparing Saida to Beirut …)
But nevertheless in both places I know people who belong to both camps (with or against premarital sex) but the majority of with are in Beirut and visa versa.

And believe me opinion can change and they often do… and sometimes for the better

My 2 cents

ghassan karam said...

There is one issue that needs to be highlighted and that has not been mentioned yet by any of the previous posts. A large portion of the respondents indicated that they would not consider marrying the woman with whom they have premarital sex. That is a reflection of a mentality that I had hoped we had overcome decades ago. I have no problem withthose that do not want to practice premarital sex but to say that you do but yet at the same time the man will not consider the woman if she agrees to be a suitable marriage partner is the height of hypocracy. Very simply this attitude implies that these men do not have any respect for the women with whom they are going out, actually I have heard it so often over the past 30 years, they think that the poor woman who obliges and resiprocates is a harlot. This speaks volumes about the place of women in our culture and about double standards. A young Lebanese would want to date and have sex with the woman next door but if his sister is to date she must refrain from sex, it is these pervasive attitudes that rationalize the too many "honor" crimes that go unprosecuted because society does not consider such killings to be even an infraction of the law.

Kodder said...

thanks bob, they are just closed minded people, who fear changes.
I know Ghassan, double standards guys piss me off.(stated it several times in past comments and my blog)
They give a bad name to the rest of us.
I hope those double standards get under a spell of a cruel Mistress who would give them a proper punishment.
About the honor crimes, a while ago I didn't think that lebanon actually has such a thing. And I believe the prison time for a honor crime is like 5 years only, instead of
life inprisonment and (for the faint hearted skip the rest of the sentence please...I warned you) castration (They killed...nothing can be as cruel) because such "beings" do not deserve to be men.
hmm seems my sadistic side is up today.

Vox Populi - Agent Provocateur said...

The 'sexual culture' in Lebanon depends on your class. Not your social or sectarian class, but your cultural class.

Some Lebanese girls are wild and the number of those who have experiences is larger than you think. Most girls that I know are not but they do have sexual relations outside marriage with their boyfriends - this is a normal and healthy thing IMO. Still, I think that a majority of Lebanerse girls chose (or don't chose) to remain virgins until marriage.

Abstinence is sometimes a willing choice for girls but it's rarely one for men. But I think that men who are sexually frustrated can only blame their shitty mentality and not women.

Lebanon is less puritan than one might think. It reminds me of Victorian England. Cold from outside, but insiders knew better.

K. , the best friend of my ex-girlfriend had a threesome in Paris (with double penetration). She did that in Paris because she didn't want to damage her 'repuation. My girlfirend told me the story, even though she was supposed to keep it secret (never tell a secret to a girl). K. is the kind of girl who's daddy's little angel and you'd never guess she's a hottie if you don't know her well.

There's a niece of a (very) moderate Sunni politician that I (very vaguely) know who has a huge sexual appetite, according to a common friend who knows better. She goes out string/pantiless and frequently have casual sex with a lot of people, regardless of their religion. The girl has some rules though: never have sex with 2 different men during the same day.

I know a Lebanese guy who had a threesome with a rich Saudi guy and his rich Saudi girlfriends.

One night, one of my close friends was bringing a girl back home when this girl took my brother hand and put it somewhere hot and wet. My friend didn't do anything to trigger this reaction (even though he wasn't unpleased): the girl did the first move (all the moves actually because with a first move like that, there's no second move).

As for my own family, I was born 7 months after my parents' wedding.

For me people who accept their sexuality are perfectly normal, it's the conservative bigots who are abnormal. Arabs may bitch about Lebanon's relative openness as much as they want, deep inside they envy us.

I know plenty of other anecdotes like this. Read that for example.
http://herlocksholmes.blogspot.com/2006/06/are-you-shy-or-gay.html

Sahira said...

I had plenty of lebanese lovers...Here in marocco it's more difficult to get laid and have fun...

Kodder said...

oh Vox we werent saying that there arent some Wild people.

Roderick said...

ur boring me peepz, scuza :D

shefnekon! As for the others, the grown up you can find me on halfeuropean.blogspot.com Kodder link.

Arrivederci!
Roody

Jamal said...

BTW, this discussion has been moved to http://lebanonheartblogs.blogspot.com/
to try to reach a wider audience.