Right now we can feel the escalation. While the night was calm, the day has been anything but.
The streets of Beirut are emptier than yesterday at this time. Most people are starting to prepare for a long term confrontation. No one handles a psychological war like the Lebanese people. Civilians have been hit hard. Bombs are getting bigger and louder. At the pace this thing is going, a long term confrontation would mean regional involvement. I still think the US would not allow this conflict to spillover to Syria and Iran.
Olmert's bet on a sectarian uprising or infighting breaking out and taking care of Hezbollah for them seems less likely to materialize with each passing air raid. We're divided and we hate each other, but one thing that brings all together is the Israeli war machine. Most of us have felt their crimes first hand and memories die hard. Others still hold grudges against Israel for using them and then leaving them out to dry. Hezbollah will have to answer a few questions when all is said and done, but we will not do Israel's dirty work. We're not that dumb.
Beirut Port being hit hard, I just heard about 10 blasts.
More Later...
28 comments:
amen ya jamal. hang in there.
the Israeli plan is to bomb Bierut to sand and then take on Syria/Iran.
Read the flyers the IDF droppped and Assad has 72 hours deadline too.
That's very true Jamal, No one handles a psychological war like the Lebanese people. We were born during war, raised in war times, and we studied and earned our degrees during war!
I am also hearing louder and nearer explosions here in Saida. But this can not affect me the least.
Take care, be safe.
I do not understand why you so surprise that you are attacked. 3 days ago you wrote : We're All Hezbollah. So if you are all Hezbollah do not you ALL be attacked?
You wrote as well “Olmert is promising more hell, but I think it's just hot air.” Did you changed you mind now? Do not you think that your thinking that Olmert will do nothing is inspired Hezbollah to do what they did?
may it is time for you to reflect on yourself a little bit not only blame others?
I disagree with you , I think you are wrong , I think your are morally responsibil for what is going on . BUT I WANT TO TELL YOU THANK YOU FOR THIS BLOG for sharing your thoughts and for letting me pots what I want even if I do not agree with you. May be this exchange of thoughts is a way out?
BUT WE WILL NOT DO ISRAEL'S DIRTY WORK.
Jamal!I am amazed by this twisted logic:
Do not you think that it is Israel who are doing duty work for you? IT IS YOUR COUNTRY AFTER ALL! When you hit your are crying we are an depended state and it is an aggression, but when you are require to take responsibilities for your independent state you are calling it duty work? Please explain it to me I really want to understand!
If it is not your responsibility and you think that your can have it both ways , harboring Hezbollah and being in good terms with Israel you are not getting it right, you still in your 12th of July kind of thinking being sure that olmert is just talking
I want to make several comments here.
1- Hamas kidnapped one soldier few days back. Israel staged a full-scale invasion with the explicit reason to free her soldier, and the hidden agenda of undermining Hamas gvt. Last week, Hizbullah kidnapped 2 soldiers, killed three. What kind of reaction would you expect from Israel? If you just started reading newspapers last week you would guess that Israel is going to stage a full-scale invasion, get rid of Hizbullah once and for all.
2- In the meantime, Syria comfortably sits enjoying her summertime, watching Lebanon set ablaze, chuckling at seeing Saniora trying to mend the pieces oh his broken gvt. Hypocritically backing Hizbullah but refusing to get involved in a war although they pretend to be as indignated as Hizbullah to Gaza invasion by Israel. But do you think they're fool enough to get involved. They will sit calmly while the world will beg them to go back to Lebanon and calm the situation and stay there- in Lebanon, for good this time. And of course, Nobody talks about any international tribunal to drag to court those responsible for Hariri's murder. How convenient.
3- And of course, nobody talks about Iran's nuclear plan, how convenient as well.
4- But guess who is suffering? Us. And yes, Lebanon will occupy headlines for a while but then everybody will forget, and we will be still burning in hell.
5- And as for the rest of the arab world, including Syria, Palestine, Lebanon and Iran, they can negotiate peace with Israel- like Egypt and Jordan- today, in a week, in months, in years. In the end, that's their only choice.
If you poke the Lion of David with a stick do not be surprised when it bites off your arm at the shoulder.
If you love Lebanon then be grateful that Israel will destroy the forces enslaving and occupying Lebanon, Syria and it's proxy Hizballah. This is happening because Lebanese were too cowardly to stand up to Hizballah.
Don't hate Israel when it is Syria and Iran that are willing to fight to the last Lebanese!
Rise up Lebanon and take back the land of cedars!
"We're not that dumb."
I'm very sorry to say this, but, apparantly, you are...!
As mentioned in another post, it is now Israel doing your dirty work, and that is perhaps the most shamefull part of it all. If the Lebanese people would have rejected a terrorist group ( and the palestinian people as well!), your region would be headed for more peacefull days in full stride. Instead you have chosen to be bombed decades back, and because of your choices, there is far from public outrage at your situation in the western world.
What can I say...? Give Israel back their soldiers and get rid of those psycopaths sitting in your parliament! This will show Israel and the rest of the world that this situation is not your preffered choice, and help will come pouring, I can assure you!
Jamal, hang in there.
We will not do their dirty work for them. I do disagree with you about one thing. We do not hate each other. We may not have been united in the little details, but we were united in the big picture.
We are now more united. Shi'ite. Sunni. Druze. Maronite. Ortodox. And everything in between. We are united. And that is something the Israelis have not taken into consideration.
This is not the Lebanon of the '70s and '80s. The people of Lebanon are mighty. And we will rise to the challenge.
The Lebanese don't like HA.
The Israeli's don't like HA.
The Lebanese want full control over their territory.
The French never carried much for Americans or the Brits, but during WWII, they joined same in removing the Nazis from France. And they've maintained their independence ever sense.
I'd use an identity other than "Anonymous" except I'm tired of having to remember each identity and password, for each of the different blogs.
Any updates, Jamal?
Jamal,
I may not agree with everything you say, but I agree with perpetual refugee's and your analysis that we will not be killing each other for israel's sake. No fucking way.
So its like you said, negotiate now, negotiate after lebanon is turned into rubble, suit yourself, eventually you will negotiate. THe only thing is that we have to really tackle the HA issue ONCE THIS IS OVER.
for israel's [sic] sake
Not for Israel's sake, for your sake.
I was in Beirut in 2001 for a conference. Lovely city, but once you drove out to the country all changed. Syrian soldiers and Hezbollah militia checkpoints every 30 km or so, asking for donations to Hezbollah (needless to say I did not participate).
Jamal, Hezbollah/Syria/Iran is murdering Lebanon. Israel is not your enemy. Lebanon has a history of peaceful cohabitation of Christian/Muslims, same as Israel.
The best way Lebanon can save itself is to help IDF kill every single Hezbollah member and all their symphatizers. And them bury them together with pigs to send a message to all Wahhabis and Islamofascists.
A bit of perspective - post WWI, if the Legionnaires figthing Red Russia had enoug weapons and manpower, and had they killed every single communist and their symphatizer, 100 million people - victims of communism (some of the my family) could have lived.
We have to do the same with Wahhabis.
God bless America and Israel.
Andy
to blood thirsty anonymous,
you do your own killings. I am not willing to have the blood of nearly 1 million lebanese on my hands.
Well, well aren't we noice and proper?
Or are we simply being a coward. Is it easier to wait to be wiped out (Tibet?) - or trying to pro-actively defend oneself (Osirik?)
If there is a group of people (Hamas, Hezbollah) out to kill my side I have only one option - try to kill them first. Tragedy of Lebanon is that there is too many people either too stupid to see this - or too coward to act upon this. I really don't know which applies to you.
"With smart people I will argue, with humane people I will plead, with tyrnats I shall spare no quarter and no argument as it will be wasted."
William Lloyd Garrions, leading Abolitionist
Andy
"Israel is not your enemy"
Hmmm, a bit a evil is necessary ha?
This is not the behaviour of a country who is serious about peace.
A bit of perspective: Hizbullah was born after the Israeli's 1982 invasion. How come no one goes as far as that in their action/reaction sequencing?
This is useless; I am responding to someone who believes the world is a safer place after killing tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of civilians in Iraq. Well FYI, it fuckin' ain't any safer!
Just to clarify some points correct me what am I missing
1. Israel following Un resolution withdrew from Lebanon
2. UN certified the border and certified Israelis withdrawal according to resolution
3. UN did make Lebanon responsible for safety of borders with Israel and Lebanon according to Un had to disarm Hezbollah
What was happening that Israel did precisely what it promised to UN and Lebanon did everything in opposite direction braking every single promise and every single responsibility :Lebanon did strengthening of Hezbollah, making Hezbollah part of the government and as such Hezbollah became a legitimate part of state of Lebanon, Lebanon by hands of Hezbollah continued rocket attacks on Israel. Eventually Lebanon attacked Israel with Hezbollah forces crossing the border certified by UN and invaded territory of Israel . who is a victim and who is an aggressor here ?
A humiliated Moslem is a peaceful Moslem. Israel should focus - not only on killing the Lebanese war criminals, the militants, the human shields - but on humiliating Islam. When Mecca is a smoking ruin, moslems will start behaving like human beings.
al: "Israel did precisely what it promised to UN"
You are missing one very important piece of information. After May 2000, Israel continued to fly over lebanese territory (not talking about disputed Shebaa) and sometimes firing on villages (again not talking about Shebaa). Does that not count as aggression?
Hi Jooj,
well ok - let me ask this - why did Israel invade Lebanon in 1982?? Maybe to protect herself from fallouts of the Lebanese civil war that started in 1975?
And let us go back - as per your wish - all the way to 1948 and establishment of Israel. Who attacked Israel first?? Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq.
Can you please point out an Israeli based terrorist outfit a la Hezbollah?
You can't. There was none.
I am not trying to say that Israel has never made any mistakes, ok?
I am trying to say that as per US/Canadian laws - and you live in Canada as per your blog - Herr Comrade (Genosse) Mouhmad Ahmadinejad, any and all Hamas/Hezbollah/PLA leaders would be tried and convicted based on our respective hate laws. Just based on their words, leave alone actions. That would carry criminal offense conviction(s).
This is why Hezbollah is a cancer and cancer must be eradicated or else patient dies. Patient is Western civilization as we know it.
Hey, jooj I will be in Ottawa later on this summer - if you are interested I am happy to buy you a beer and talk this over. Just reply here, ok?
Andy
She invaded in 1982 "Maybe to protect herself from fallouts of the Lebanese civil war that started in 1975?". That is just rediculous.
When they invaded, it was first about eradicating the PLO in the south. They they find reasons to march to Beirut. PLO was expelled from Beirut. Then what happens? Israel finds reason to stay - for 18 years. And in the first two weeks of achieving their goals, their surgical precision when bombing killed about 14,000 and wounded 20,000 civilians. Not to mention phosphorous bombs and such.
Going back to 1948. Who created hundreds of thousands of refugees? a lot of them still have the deeds of ownership for the homes they had to evacuate and never to return to.
Historians and many others all confirm that in the early 20th century, Palestine was at least 85% Arabs.
OK, I guess you will take me back to the Promised Land thing. This is religious theory and not being religious means my answer would make a mockery of the concept. So no comment!
Thanks for the gesture Andy but I am not here making acquantances or trying to change the world. I am just venting and trying to be sane.
hey jooj,
ok no worry about changing the world. I was trying to make sure we are on the same page.
OK well let me see. 3 years after end of WWII where about 6 million Jews were murdered by Nazi regime, UN agrees to bless creation of Israel. Few weeks later, 5 Arab states attack Israel - presumably to finish the Nazi job.
Let me ask you this - how about the safe right of return of thousands of Jews who left Arab countries - and left behind all their possessions - to move to "promised land"?
Look - I made a gesture - try to invite you and meet you - you are free to make a decision to not make "acquaintances" - let me assure you I am as much as atheist - or maybe more - as you claim to be.
Why is it that the Arabs - who were on the top of their game in early 2nd millenium, dominating in math, astronomy, architecture and many other areas, are so oppressed, illiterate, militant nowadays? Why is it that when Muslims conquered Jerusalem and beat Romans in early AD - they took Jews under their protection and sanctioned re-opening of synagogues.
Why don't we see it today?
Answer: Original Islam as preached by Prophet Muhammad was hijacked by militant Islamists starting with Ibn Al'Saud.
We - the West - are in war with Wahhabi (Saudi) Islam - and its proxies - Hezbollah, Hamas, PLO - originally under the ever corrupt thug Yassir Arafar.
Why are the leaders of the so called Islamist organizations hiding among children and women (in clear violation of Geneva convention BTW).
There is only one solution for us - to kill and eradicate this cancerous form of Islam - Wahhabi sect and its followers (bin Ladden, Al Zarqawi - done :-) thanks to Marines, al Zawahiri, and many others, including militants in US and Canada.
I think I know why you don't want to meet - you have no arguments to support barbaric behaviour of the militant Islam groups (or maybe I should say Islamofascist - same thing )
Have a great day. Can't wait for more Israeli bombs eradicating the whole Hezbollah and hopefully entire Iranian mullah leadership, Basher Assad and his gang and entire Hamas in one swoop. One can still hope.
After all we witnessed collapse of communism, so I hope to see collapse of Islamism as well.
Take care bro
Andy andy12489@yahoo.com
PS My invitation is still open.
I am hoping Jamal does not mind my using of his forum for discussing this. Excuse me Jamal.
Andy:
"I think I know why you don't want to meet - you have no arguments to support barbaric behaviour of the militant Islam groups (or maybe I should say Islamofascist - same thing )"
Well if you think you know that I have no supportive arguments then why do you still want to meet? it would be a quite boring and easy-win debate for you and this not fun. Well not for me if I were you. So why bother?
Al,
1- "Israel following Un resolution withdrew from Lebanon".
No, that's not true. Israel withdrew from Lebanon, because she was FORCED to. The resistance against the occupation COMPELLED them to go back. Well, it took so long and so pricey to teach them that- unfortunately.
2-" UN certified the border and certified Israelis withdrawal according to resolution."
One point missed here: you seem to have forgotten that STILL Israel has a part of Lebanese land in hands.
Fighting against the occupier is legitimate according this very UN you are referring to.
3- And that's YOU who brag about UN's resolutions? Sorry to say this: but it makes me laugh my chest off when I see a person supporting Israel is telling us about UN resolutions. Doesn't Israel occupy the first rank in denying, ignoring and violating UN resolutions?
4- When Hizbollah deals with military forces, then Israel has a right to kill civilians? Why? Because Lebanese are 'sub-human' as Palestinians? Ha? Isn't deep in Zionist minds that their blood is blue? What justifies them to attack the airport and the power plant?
5- One more point: If I were you and believed the same as you do, I would have picked a more humble tune when addressing a person (a blogger here) under the direct threats of the state I'm backing; that might bear better results rather than the anger and the hatred you provoke.
Laila from Iran
I don't see any reason to think that Israel was depending on sectarian fighting.
Quite the opposite, Israel is depending on the IDF, not on Lebanon or the UN or anyone else.
to Laila form al:
Thank you for your response Laila!
First of all I do not support anybody neither Israel nor its enemies I am trying to understand what is going on. I am not stating anything I am just asking questions. In my judgment worst thing what is happening today is lack of any productive dialog between sides.
1.
“Israel withdrew from Lebanon, because she was FORCED to. The resistance against the occupation COMPELLED them to go back. “
May so but in this case you are explaining reasons why Israel complied with resolution of UN it still does not override the fact that it DID WITHDREW AS UN REQUIRED. Besides, you left without answer my part of question where I did ask about Lebanon role : UN did make Lebanon responsible for safety of borders with Israel and Lebanon according to Un had to disarm Hezbollah role . What about that?
2-
" UN certified the border and certified Israelis withdrawal according to resolution."
One point missed here: you seem to have forgotten that STILL Israel has a part of Lebanese land in hands. “
May be so, I do not know about that I have to de research ( as I mentioned I am trying to understand what is going on), but still, it does not override the fact that border WAS CERTIFIED BY UN, would you agree?
3,
“Fighting against the occupier is legitimate according this very UN you are referring to.”
May be so , but there is no occupation in Lebanon today because according to UN withdraw was completed and ended occupation DE FACTO. Therefore, Hezbollah fighting not an occupation, it fighting the Israel itself. Is it not the fact that Hezbollah and majority of surrounding Muslims including Iran does not recognize the right of the state of Israel TO EXIST?
4.
“And that's YOU who brag about UN's resolutions? Sorry to say this: but it makes me laugh my chest off when I see a person supporting Israel is telling us about UN resolutions. Doesn't Israel occupy the first rank in denying, ignoring and violating UN resolutions?”
I am not bragging about anything, I am asking questions and I am open to your answers .Correct me if I am wrong, in foundation of this story is the resolution of UN about creation of state of Israel and this resolution was rejected by Muslims who attacked Israel in 1948 militarily instead of accepting resolution of UN . So, if you not excepting the right of exist for Israel, meaning you are not following the fundamental resolution of UN what a point for Israel to follow other relations? You cannot pick and choose resolutions of UN and follow them if you like them . My position is that EVERYBODY have to follow ALL resolutions in its CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER. Meaning, you have to recognize Israel and then you have moral and legal right to demand that Israel will follow UN’s resolutions as well. What is wrong with that approach?
5.
“When Hizbollah deals with military forces, then Israel has a right to kill civilians? “
First of all ,what Hezbollah did was an ACT OF AGGRESSION : military unprovoked penetration on the territory of sovereign state crossing border recognized by UN. You started aggression it is the right of attacked country to decide how to respond. You cannot have it both ways to be aggressor and to dictate how to respond on your aggression. Me personally, I think that Israel had to do something to avoid civilian casualties. But the reason of these casualties is Lebanon’s aggression against Israel. .
6- “ If I were you and believed the same as you do, I would have picked a more humble tune when addressing a person (a blogger here) under the direct threats of the state”
I think you right about that, Jamal is under horrific stress right now and I should restrain tone. But I did not address my questions to Jamal personally I wanted that somebody would help me to understand better the situation, and I appreciate your help, Laila. Last thing I want is to put more pressure on Jamal, sorry if it is sounded like that. I hate nobody and all my questions are looking for understanding . Anything wrong with that?
My best wishes to Jamal, be safe this the most important thing
al
3, “Fighting against the occupier is legitimate according this very UN you are referring to.”
who is an occupier? who has the right to a state?
Most arab states did not even exist in 1930, they in fact are "occupying" lands that they conquered.
mohammed and his whores invaded jerusalem and took lands that were not theirs, so he and all HIS DECENDENTS are OCCUPIERS!
becareful of what you wish for....
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